Gretchen’s excerpts from her brother’s blog and Elisabeth Elliot’s writing have triggered some good conversation. I wanted to highlight the thoughts of Sarah, who had this to say:I read Will’s blog first and then came over here. I had just finished asking if being a woman, then, was “perfect beauty under perfect control.” I think it might be. Just as a man’s strength truly comes from his courageous, persevering heart, so a woman’s beauty stems from her peaceful, trusting heart.There are a lot more complications wrapped up in my statement than are readily obvious on the surface. For one thing, men and women image God together as a complement and individually. Women have courage – there’s no doubt about that. Men have their own sort of beauty too. And there we see the qualification that comes necessary. I couldn’t just say, “Men have beauty!” They have their own sort. We women have our own sort of courage.
I don’t think it’s a curse that we submit. I think the whole fact that it is “submission” comes from this being a fallen world. If men were perfectly loving, they would take us into account every time and there would be no felt pain in following. As it is, if we were perfectly submissive (I do hate that word!) then it would be easy for the guys to love us. Neither one of those is gonna happen perfectly!
I think that both of these emotions should be inspired by the other’s heart. A man’s perfect strength, if it exists, inspires me (a naturally strong leader) to follow. A woman’s perfect beauty will inspire a man to love. A respected man will grow stronger, and a loved woman more beautiful.
I do not have time right now to formulate a proper response to the questions raised in the comments to Gretchen’s post, but have asked another YLCF Team Member with more wisdom than me to address it. Look for that post sometime in the near future.
Photo: Kailoni (Natalie’s college roommate) and her husband on their honeymoon, 2005
8 Comments
Hi girls,
This topic is something, I have always been intrigued by, and so I thought I would add some of my thoughts! (-: Sorry it is so. Long!
Sarah, I loved this statement you made earlier…
“A man’s perfect strength, if it exists, inspires me (a naturally strong leader) to follow. A woman’s perfect beauty will inspire a man to love. A respected man will grow stronger, and a loved woman more beautiful.”
I am also a naturally strong leader. As I have grown up, I have found that this statement has been very true in my life. When I was younger I tended to show my dominate personality more around boys, than the quiet and meek spirit that Paul talks about in the Word. I always thought I could do anything the boys could do and probably better. I disliked anything that was feminine, detested wearing pink, and abhorred all the “girl talks and doing the girl things.”
I have found that this feminist’s mindset tends to show up more in the girls, who have not had great friendships or relationships with the male figures in their lives. These figures can be their brothers, dads, pastors, or simply male friends. When a young woman is not being treated or cared for correctly by the male figures in her life…she tends to develop a survival mode. In this survival mode, she will begin to pick up the slack that the men are dropping and run with it until a man (like the one Sarah described above) has the courage and the strength to step up to the plate and take her place.
Now to clarify…I do not mean…a man trying to supersede a woman, just because he thinks he could do it better or because he is a man. This “supersede mindset” is wrong and will normally succeed in pushing the woman farther into her feminism.
A Godly man will recognize that she is able to do it, but will also have the servant’s heart, strength, and courage to do it for her. It is an attitude of biblical manliness that says, “Christ instructed us men to serve the ladies as Christ served His bride (the church).” This mindset says, “Because I am a man and I recognize my calling of being a
Servant-leader let me have the privilege to serve you.” This is why your statement Sarah of “A man’s perfect strength, if it exists, inspires me (a naturally strong leader) to follow” is true! It is easier to follow a young man’s leadership, regardless of his age, when he is being a servant-leader as Christ was.
In my case, I am the oldest of eight girls, and I have always been my dad’s right hand person. As a young teenager, my identity was locked up in what I had made myself into, not who God wanted me to be. I was a strong independent, bold, young woman who had no idea what it meant to be a Godly woman. The character qualities I often operated in were excellent qualities, except that I used them incorrectly for my fleshly advantage. This mindset did not allow me the freedom to be a young woman after God’s own heart. Let me share a little about how the Lord brought me back into balance on this issue.
One of my best friends is a young man in our local homeschool group. He and I are about 9 months apart, we have grown up together, and our families are very close friends. When he was 12, his parents began to encourage him to make the switch from being the child to becoming the man he is today. This young man made it one of his life purposes to serve the young women, and of course the older women, in his social circles. Chivalry was and still is, one of his strongest character qualities.
Since, I happened to be in one his circles…I quickly became his project case. He started with door opening; now…I was horrible at this; my philosophy was “why wait for a guy to open the door if you get there first, I mean my hands do work…and I can open a door.” My philosophy did not deter him; it only served to challenge him to help me become more feminine. One afternoon while our families were together, he pulled me aside and proceeded to tell me the meaning of the character quality Deference. Which means, “Limiting my freedom so I do not offend the tastes of those around me.” He looked at me and said, “You need to limit your freedom of opening the doors…so you do not offend me.”
(Of course, he said this with a humble attitude and big smile.)
Because I highly respected this young man…and my spirit knew he was right, the Lord helped me swallow my pride, and say, “Ok I will try, but you may have to remind me.”
This young man and two of my other friends, who I have now adopted as my younger brothers, have played vital parts in helping the Lord and my parents make me into the young women that I am today! I now can wear pink and enjoy it, I can go shopping if I need too, I can buy cute purses, talk with the girls on or off the phone, and now I even know how to have more fun with the guys, I am around, in a Godly way.
To my sisters in Christ who are reading this…be encouraged you can be friends with young men. Some of you might say whoa…wait….there are not any mature young men that I am ever around, so this does not apply to me! I have to say…NO it does apply to you! There are many ways that we can gently push young men into biblical manhood. Our job as young women is to encourage, respect, and affirm the men in our lives.
I once read an article on Focus on the Families website by Lysa TerKeurst called “Becoming His Beauty” in it she quotes John Eldridge from his book “Wild at Heart” where he says: “I’m telling you that the church has really crippled women when it tells them that their beauty is vain and they are at their feminine best when they are ’serving others.’ A woman is at her best when she is being a woman.”
I completely agree!!! “Women are best when they are being women.” When we walk in our callings, and use the talents that God has given us. We can then, turn and help push a young man into his destiny. This is why God created us! To be their helpmate…this even includes your guy friends. I would encourage you ask your guy friends what they would prefer “help or resistance” and see what answers you get! John Eldridge says in his book a little later that we need to “use all we have as woman to get him to use all he’s got as a man. To this I say Go Girls!!!
My brothers (-: and I have discussed this subject many times and they completely agree with John Eldridges statements! Girls, do not take my word for it ask your male figures in your life and go from there!
Many Blessings
Kelci
Thank you very much, Sarah and Kelci, for your thoughts on this topic.
Wow, Kelci! I can very much identify with what you have said. For a number of years growing up, I defined myself by what I did not do. I was not one of those super-feminine girls who cried all the time. I did not wear pink. I think this has only really changed over the last four years, as I’ve found out who God has made me to be.
Now pink is one of my favorite colors. I have been known to cry in public, when the occasion deserved it. (Hey, sometimes I feel like I cry all the time. Probably, not but it feels like it. At least I don’t do it in public.) For me – well, I have a strong-willed mom, not to mention two older brothers. I guess I determined growing up that I wouldn’t let anyone dominate me. 
I have been learning respect for authority for about six years now.
Anyway, thank you so much! It is good to find someone like me in these ways. (And thanks to you YLCF ladies for continually managing this website!)
Interesting comments…
But what do many of these things have to do with being feminine? Aren’t some of these just culturally feminine? For example,the color pink was once considered a masculine color.
Women are women because that is the way they are made. It has nothing to do with what colors they like or what their interests are. Those are much more cultural. Some of those things might find their way into how we define “feminine”, but we should not *base* our definition on them. Don’t you think?
- a woman who has, and always had, wonderful male role models and friends in her life, does not detest anything because it is considered feminine, but doesn’t feel she needs to be defined by them either.
I love that! “a woman who has, and always had, wonderful male role models and friends in her life, does not detest anything because it is considered feminine, but doesn’t feel she needs to be defined by them either.
”
Great Job!
Kelci
I agree that those things in themselves are not essentially feminine or non-feminine. That is just what I realized.
I had eschewed them previously because I didn’t understand very much about femininity.
That makes a lot of sense, the “perfect beauty under perfect control.” I have to agree and enjoyed the original articles as well as Sarah’s followup.
I really enjoyed reading this!
I am definately one for woman ministry and i think that there have been some good topics raised here!
A few nights ago (after youth group) us leaders went out for some food and a chat after youth centre and I was being dropped home by one of the male leaders, we only have two and they live down the same st so I got to ride home with the two young men.
I was quite happy to sit in the back and just listen to them banter about nothing in particular, but the guy who was not driving quickly got to the car and jumpe in the back, leaving the front seat free for me!
I felt very special! (not alot of guys would do that!)
While being driven home I was asked “Do girls actually like gentlemen?” my first impulse was “YES!!!” But i held back and thought about it for a moment.
I told them that as girls (i am only 17) we love a guy to hold the door open for us, or to pick up the objects we have dropped or to help with heavy things. We talked about being too gentlemanly- always opening doors, always commenting on how we look, always pushing our chairs in and always taking our coats! They agreed with me =]
I am the type of girl who thinks the small things in life count. If a young man was always ( and i mean ALWAYS) opening doors for us or always commenting on how we look it wouldnt mean as much, it would stop being meaningful and we wouldn’t appreciate it as much. When the men in church hold the door open for me I really appreciate it and I feel that it is their way of telling us that we are worth it, they have gone out of their way to open the door for us because we are worth it!
I really agree with everything you all have said! So thanks! It is good to be reminded of our femininity and how it plays a part in a mans role!
The older men at church are great role models for our younger men, as are the older women for the younger women!
God Bless!
x
Casey.